Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:03 Hello and welcome to Women of the Middle East Podcast, women of the Middle East. This podcast relates the realities of Arab woman and their rich and diverse experiences. It's aims to present the multiplicity of their voices and wishes to break overdue cultural stereotypes about women of the Middle East. My name is a Maki. I'm a feminist, scholar and educator. This is Women of the Middle East podcast. This is season four woman voices across genres where I will be speaking to women producing feminist content across different genres and outlets. These courageous voices delve into untapped areas such as women with disability, hybrid identities, intergenerational trauma, feminist narrative in activism, and much, much more. I'm your host, Emily Malki, contributing to creating a new narrative about us by us.
Speaker 2 00:00:56 This is Women of the Middle East
Speaker 1 00:00:59 WhatsApp.
Speaker 1 00:01:00 Hello and welcome. Uh, our guest here is in Dohan, in our studios today, uh, NAZA <unk>. Uh, born in Teran, Iran and raised in the uk. Naza is a humanitarian philanthropist and global education advocate focusing on education, empowerment of women and girls, and the environment. This is only a snippet of her bio. Very long bio naza. We're very happy to have you here. Thank you so much for having me. Um, you are a three d well-rounded activist. You're an environmentalist human rights activist and a philanthropist. You also advise the UNICEF on creating campaigns, but you also have founded, um, your own initiative, Sage, uh, the social Accelerator for a Green Economy. How can you encapsulate all of this, and not just your own story, but in your young, um, narrative of who you are as a Middle Eastern young woman. How did it all start and where is it heading to, uh, what made you who you are?
Speaker 1 00:02:08 What's your story in your own words? Um, well, thank you very much. Thank you for having me. Um, I, I moved to the UK when I was, um, nine years old. And, um, we were immigrants. We left Iran and we, you know, the greatest things that I was, that shaped me were the resources that I had access to. So the very basic resources, and the most important one of those for me was education. Um, I think growing up my family really instilled the value of, of, of education and really encouraged me to pursue, pursue it. And that almost, you know, for me, I being in a position now where I'm able to help, where I'm able to do the same for others, I see it as a, you know, you shouldn't, you have to, you really, really have to look at this objectively from, from what if, if you have the ability to do something like this, why wouldn't you?
Speaker 1 00:03:08 And also, you know, I know what, what it did for me. I know what, how important it was for me. I know how important it was to shape my narrative. So I really wanna be able to do the same things for, for others, especially young girls in my position. How grounded are you in your Middle Eastern identity, and you've moved to the UK at the age of nine? Um, again, talking about creating our own narratives, you are creating a narrative that includes the lives, bettering the lives, right. Uh, of other women, men, youth in the region. How grounded do you think you are in that identity? And what, what did you manage to take, uh, from that identity and what did you manage to, you know, say, well, this doesn't work for me? Well, you know, growing up in a foreign country where English is your second, second language, you do, you know, it's very, very difficult to live authentically, um, and, and not be influenced.
Speaker 1 00:04:15 You almost grow up in a duality. And it's only as you start to get older and become more confident and develop a better sense of agency, that you really start to develop and understand how important your culture and heritage is to you. I didn't understand this until probably my late twenties. Um, you know, growing up in a very Eurocentric society, it's hard to, it's hard to be who you actually are. Um, I wasn't given many opportunities, and you almost have to always fight and prove yourself a little bit more, first of all, cuz you're a woman. Second of all, because you're a Middle Eastern woman. And most of these societies generally have a misconception about you, about what you represent and what your ideolog ideological values are. Um, and yeah, it's, it's hard. It's, it's very, you know, I won't lie to you and say I was always able to do that.
Speaker 1 00:05:13 Um, I was, it's difficult, but I think when you do start to own it and own your story, own your culture, own your background, it really does empower you so much more So today, I, I couldn't be prouder to be an Iranian woman. I couldn't be prouder to, you know, to, yeah. I couldn't, I couldn't be prouder to be a Middle Eastern woman because I see, especially today, so many Middle Eastern women coming out and being powerful, powerful figures in the world, and changing the narratives about who we actually are. So, you know, I, at the moment, I'm, I'm still developing. I'm still, you know, I'm, I'm becoming more and more in tune with my culture. Um, and, you know, given that it's, you know, Iran is a, is a, is a unique case because there's, you know, it is such a diverse country. There's so many different cultures, background heritages that exist within, within, within, within the country.
Speaker 1 00:06:10 So again, it's still, it's still, um, becoming clearer to me, um, and, and is still defining. But I I, I am very proud to be a Middle East Eastern mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I think you do have the advantage, or you did have the advantage growing up of looking at, um, at identity and identity dynamics, um, from a wider perspective. Um, I don't think it's a disadvantage. Now. You would see, and this is why we, I named, uh, the podcast Woman of the Middle East in the Middle East mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because there are many, uh, middle Eastern women living in the west, um, and being exposed to the distorted images and ideologies about an orientalist reductionist ideology about Middle Eastern women, Arab woman, Muslim woman, that unfortunately, some have internalized, some of us have internalized, even in the Middle East through a media Hollywood. And, um, but you were able to look at it from an educational perspective, learn about the world, learn about Middle Eastern, um, identity and, and manage to, um, escape the indoctrination that some Middle Eastern women have gone through mm-hmm. <affirmative>,
Speaker 1 00:07:28 Right. That made them believe in their, um, lack of agency in their facility and in their lack of power. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, what would you say about that? I think you are 100% Mariah, and I think today it's, whether we like it or for the, for good or for bad social media has actually played a huge part in this. Because what it's, what it's done is that it's essentially shown women and all over the world that there are people like you out there. So own who you are, live authentically, and be, you know, be be the creator of your own story. You don't have to conform. I mean, you know, there is the dark side of, of social media as well, and there is, but I think more importantly, depending on how you see things and how what your, you know, what your education has been, you can either use it as a tool that amplifi that empowers you, or you can, you know, as you say, indoctrinate yourself to, to what everybody else believes you should be.
Speaker 1 00:08:29 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. No, true. Um, let's talk about sage. So during upheavals of any sort of course, whether political unrests or words or displacement, um, recently health pandemic girls and women are the first to, uh, suffer. And the long, uh, term impacts on them is also dis uh, disproportionately, um, bigger mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, what are the gender sensitive measures you've taken in Sage to ensure that help and support is extended to this disadvantaged big, huge portion of, of our population in the Middle East? What, what's the work that you've done? You know, I wanna tell you a story. So, the first, when I first started, um, Sage Foundation, one of the things that I focused on was climate. Um, because you see how much of, um, social development is starting to unravel. And I remember being at a school, and we were, you know, we, we had a program at the time where we were, um, speaking to kids about climate, education, recycling, you know, things like that.
Speaker 1 00:09:29 Um, and I remember going to, into this particular classroom, and there was a girl, young girl there, and she was like, I could feel her looking at me from, from the periphery of, of, for my periphery. And as soon as I finished speaking, she was the first, first person to put her hand up. And she said to me, she said, with all due respect, she says, I know what you're telling me, but my struggle is that I'm trying to get home without getting raped. And that was for me, I started to realize, and, you know, I, I, I apologized to her first and I said, look, I'm, I'm here to, I'm here to share, but I'm also here to learn. So teach me so I can understand your context a little bit better. And, you know, the one thing I I started to realize as, as, as I did more and more work on the ground was that you women and girls has to be at the intersection of whatever it is you're doing, whether it's public health, whether it's climate, whether it's, um, and whatever it is you have to, you, you always have to prioritize women and girls.
Speaker 1 00:10:29 Covid was probably, um, the, you know, it regressed gender equality so much. That was actually a report that was released by the World Economic Forum, um, a year after the pandemic. And it showed that we regressed 17 years in gender equality, 17 years. That's, you know, that, that has such an impact on society. And, you know, going forward, thinking about social development, you have to include women and girls for, for healthy, stable society, things don't function without it. Um, and the other thing that I think is really important at the, at, at these intersections is, is education. Everything always goes back to education. And it must be contextual. Hmm. It's not something that, you know, the same values do not apply all over the world. The same concepts do not, are not applicable all over the world. And I think it's really, really important to go in with that mindset and understanding that these solutions essentially come from grassroots.
Speaker 1 00:11:34 We can be the people that pray, um, that, that frame these structural, uh, frameworks on the ground. But essentially it's, it's a dialogue between people on the ground and, and the organization. So whenever we do any work, we always, or whenever we work with a a grassroots organization, the first thing we always ask them is, what work do you do in this area, in this field of work with women and girls? Yeah. Um, so, so that's how we really came to it, I think. I think I think that's what you were alluding to, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that's amazing. You've done some work on, um, child marriages too. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Can you tell me more about that? So, child marriages. Yeah. I mean, look, I, I was in Afghanistan with UNICEF in March, 2020, and we were in a refugee camp, um, in Herrara is right at the border of Iran and Afghanistan.
Speaker 1 00:12:31 And, um, we went back, I went back six months later, and the number of child brides, I mean, it was visibly worse, you know, and the problem was that organization, international or organization had not been able to collect enough data by that point. So from March to October, that was an ample time. I mean, it was, but it wasn't, there was not enough data around this. But as an individual, when you get online, you see this mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and so I started to look into child marriage and, and Yemen was one of the, one of the countries that's, that's were struck by this. And, you know, you look at the root causes of child marriage, almost always, I mean, nobody wants to wet their children off at a young age. It is almost always out of sheer desperation. And when I spoke to some of the mothers in these refugee camps, they were so ashamed that they didn't wanna even speak to me about it.
Speaker 1 00:13:28 But the woman that, that, that did share, she said to me, one of them I remember, said to me distinctly, she said, look, imagine not eating for two weeks and having to, you know, having to feed six other children on top of that, not, you know, security means very different things to me and you and for, and for people that live within these refugee camps. Very often the parents believe that these children are safer with, with a man. So there's a number of factors that play into this, but you know, it, it's very easy for us to look at it and shame it and, and look at it as something very, very negative. But almost always, it's out of sheer desperation. I mean, personally, I don't know about you. If I don't eat for half a day or, or even a day, I start to, you know, my, I I can't think logically.
Speaker 1 00:14:25 I can't think, you know, so imagine that happening for two weeks, three weeks, four weeks a month, and really not being able to, to feed your family. So most of the time, it, it is out of desperation that they are wetting their daughter, daughters off for, for a dowry and for security. Um, so, and you know, Yemen is one of those places that poverty is so rife given, you know, the conflict that's been happening there over the years, um, given climate change that's affecting food security, it's a very, it's a very, it's very complex, but essentially these are the things that feed into the issue of child marriage becoming so prevalent in places like Yeon. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, when I ask you about your story and how can you say it, um, in your own words, um, and this is how, what I sensed from your story, just by reading about you. Um, how do you, where do you get this courage and conviction from? Uh, we all fight, uh, some of us for women and for girls, some of us from the luxury of their homes home, the luxury of our homes, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but some are on the ground, meeting those people, hearing those stories that really break your heart. Um, where do you get the strength from? Uh, NAZA, tell me, tell me and tell me how do you manage to take care of yourself while going through those other people's ordeals?
Speaker 1 00:15:55 Look, I, you know, I, I, my childhood wasn't the easiest childhood, I'll be very honest. Um, you know, I, I had a, I have an amazing mother who really fought against, you know, all odds to give us the best life she, she possibly could. And she's, she's a warrior. She really is. And, you know, she inspired me so much because I saw the things that she went through growing up. And, you know, they, they, they instilled these values in me. And what I, you know, for me to get on ground, like, you have to, if you want to do this, this kind of work, you have to be on the ground. You don't really have a choice. Don't get me wrong. I, I love traveling. I love, you know, meeting people. I love learning from them. But, you know, sometimes it does wear me down.
Speaker 1 00:16:40 But ultimately, if, if I want to do what I'm doing effectively, I have to be on the ground. And I have to understand it from people's perspective, not something, you know, it's very easy for me to sit there as well. The world needs education, so let's, let's give education to No, you, you, but what kind of education has to be, and, you know, so much of colonial legacies reside in, in aid in philanthropy, right? The ideology that this is the kind of education that people, no, not necessarily. Education is contextual. However, there are some, some things that, you know, there's some tools that, that there are common similarities. But again, it's very, very contextual. Um, how do I take care of myself? I do burnout now and again. Um, but I do prioritize my health as well. Um, I try to eat well, I try to exercise, I try to rest well.
Speaker 1 00:17:31 Um, and I also try to spend time with friends, spend time with family, and, you know, and, and have that downtime. But yeah, it's, it's, it's normal. I mean, I'm sure you, you you have it as well. It's when you, when you love something so much, um, and it transcends the concept of work you do, you know, you do tend to burn out a little bit. And it is normal, but it becomes a huge responsibility too, because you get to meet those women. And as you said, each woman has a story of her own. Um, and this is the beauty of all of the efforts we do to bring those stories into life. Uh, I don't know how much, again, I'm generalizing by saying West, because it's never west and east, but we, we see it nowadays with the World Cup and the attacks on Qatar, how unified the attacks are, how, you know, so it's white supremacy, it's colonial mentality.
Speaker 1 00:18:27 And this is exactly what happens when they deal with Middle Eastern woman. No, you break this down and you tell them each woman has a story mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and now woman in Yemen has a collective story, and yes, poverty plays a role in it. Yes. Um, uh, their fear that the insecurity, their fear for their girls. And we saw too, when they took the girls out of school, but families who believed in education took their girls out of school because girls were raped on the, on the way to the school. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So it's outta fear for their girls. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, yes, some of them covered them up because they know what's gonna happen when a girl looks, you know, feminine on the street mm-hmm. <affirmative> by all over this mania. So they need to hear those stories. What do you do to relate those stories? How do you tell those stories to the world?
Speaker 1 00:19:23 Look, I think it's really important to, for people to be able to own their own narrative and tell their own story. People's stories are not, um, are not the West to tell. Middle Eastern stories are nobody else to, you know, belong to nobody else, but to Middle Eastern people. Um, we must be able to share our own, our own narratives. Um, I think, again, it goes back to, you know, and I think as women, we are so powerful in this, in being able to empathize, in being able to understand, in being able to, you know, under, you know, seeing where one, one another come from. You know, and I think Qatar has been, you know, at the forefront of a, you know, um, of a very aggressive, um, campaign against them. Um, there's no doubt that there's issues on Qatar. And I think, you know, everybody has acknowledged that, um, they want to be put on the world map.
Speaker 1 00:20:31 Um, they want the world to come and see their culture. Um, and please, if I'm speaking out of terms, I'm not an author woman <laugh>, but if I'm, if I'm speaking out terms, please, please stop me. But this is the impression that I've gotten. Yes, true. And, you know, instead of saying, okay, let's sit down with one another, let's understand where we come from. Let's understand, um, let's understand our, our, you know, our where, where, where things, where things stem from and the sensitivities, um, political senses, sensitivities, and social sensitivities. You know, it's, I, I'm, I'm actually quite stunned how, how this is turning. I, I've ne I never expected it to be, you know, that everybody deserves to be objectively criticized, but never to this extent. So I think the most important thing right now, and again, this is not my place to say this is a place of author, woman to come out and say, but to be able to tell your story of who you are, how you operate within the society, what challenges do you see?
Speaker 1 00:21:34 And really, you know, challenging the status quo within your own community. It is not the job of the west of, of the west to, to, to do this for, for Qatar. Um, so, you know, some of my closest friends live in this country. Um, you know, uh, one of our mutual friends, Donna, for example, she's, I mean, they are, you know, they're, they're remarkable women. And I know they face certain challenges. I know they first face certain barriers, but they are high flyers. They are achieving things that, you know, a lot of people don't achieve in a lifetime. So I think, you know, being able to now share these, share these stories and putting, you know, um, women like yourself on, you know, on the world stage and say, this is who we are. This is what we do, is, is, is <unk>. And to be able to really tell their story and, and share that with the world, and break that narrative, historical narrative of, um, needing the West to say us.
Speaker 1 00:22:35 No, we don't need to say us <laugh>. If we have our own issues, we're, believe me, yes. We're Yeah, you are calling it out and we're talking you about it. Yes. And, and we will be fixing it on our own. Um, you've done work on finding digital solutions for women and girls, and I think maybe this had stemmed from Covid and, and being disconnected, especially, um, during the pandemic, the gender digital gap was brought to the surface, reflecting it another harsh reality for the Eastern women. Um, women and girls were deprived from continuing the online indication, had no access to information, no access even to security. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So those who were confined in, in, uh, you know, in houses that, you know, with their aggressors, for example, uh, with lack of security, um, um, whether in their houses or in their communities, what's the work that you've done in terms of digital access to, for women and, and groups?
Speaker 1 00:23:34 So I actually work with <inaudible> on this project. Um, it's a project called Giga. And, um, what Giga is aiming to do is to connect every single school to the world, to the internet, um, in the world, world, to the internet by 2030. Okay. And, um, I'll be perfectly honest, at first, when I, when I started looking at this project, I didn't really understand the importance of it. And then Covid happened mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and you saw how that digital divide affected people who didn't have access to, to the internet. And not just in terms of education, but in terms of employment as well. Right. If you do not have access to the, as as a student, you know, and, and you, you're in a developing nation where your, your family is really trying to make ends meet by, on a day-to-day basis, and they're stretching themselves and they're sending you to school.
Speaker 1 00:24:26 When your school shuts down for a period of time, the parents are often reluctant to send their kids back to school. Yeah. Especially girls. So what they tend to do is a child marriage. It results in child marriage, or, um, they send them into employment from a young age. Now, keeping those girls out of education, as we've discussed, creates a very un unhealthy and balanced society. And on top of that, the mothers, let's just use the mothers as an as an example, they're not able to, you know, what Covid did, what a, what a lockdown means for me and you is very different to what a lockdown means to women in Yemen or women in Afghanistan that are living in refugee camps, that are working on a day-to-day basis just to eat, to provide, you know, not, not to save money, not to pay for bills, just to eat.
Speaker 1 00:25:16 That was, you know, it, it, it created such an unequal, you know, unequal world, which is what we're seeing today. I mean, I dunno about you, but I certainly feel like the world's on fire right now. I feel like we're at such a, you know, we're, and you know, digital solu, digital connectivity is, is now a human right. It's no longer, it's as importance as having water because it gives employment opportunities and access to education that would conventionally be there. On top of that, it is also important to make sure that women and girls have access to accelerators and, and, um, and incubators that gives them opportunities into the workplace, workplace and into the market after their education. So it's, you know, digital connectivity plus these programs that transitions women into the workplace are, are as important as water, very essential as water. So let's talk about Iran.
Speaker 1 00:26:22 Um, protests have been rocking Iran since September, following the killing of course, of the 22 year old Kurdish woman, Zena maam, by the police forces for wearing her hijab inappropriately. It's for sure not the first protest, uh, against the regime that controls women in the name of religion. But because of the attention that this has been, um, gaining, um, worldwide, some called it the biggest women's rights movement in the world, some say it's a revolution in the making. What's your take on this? Look, what's happening in Iran is, um, I mean, it shows you the power of women for a very, very long time. What the, um, government in Iran has done has turned men against women. They have, um, they have forced or subjugated women to laws that naturally makes them unequal in society, which, which naturally makes it a systemic issue.
Speaker 1 00:27:26 And, you know, this is the first female rev, uh, female-led revolution that is supported by men. And it is the first time, you know, as you, as you've rightly said, there, there has been times where there have been protests in the past. Um, but this is the first time that protestors are coming to the streets. And they are, um, fi they're, they are, they're at, they're demanding at, at the downfall of, of the, of the theocracy. The Islamic Republic has failed. Um, not just women, but also men. And today we see that, you know, on, on, on social media, we see that in the news, and we see, and you know, this, I mean, I, I really, I I don't you see it, you, you see it for yourself. You know, being subjugated to laws means that you are not able to live your off your, your, your, your, your authentic.
Speaker 1 00:28:24 You're not allowed to be your authentic self. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you're not allowed to embody your identity. It is not about religion. In Iran, we have different back, different religions, different backgrounds, different, and when you're not able to embody, when you are forced to be something that you are not, this is the outcome. Yeah. Yeah. So women are fighting, not just because, you know, it's, it's not, it's not about the hijab, it's not about, it's not about religion. It's about being able to make your own choices. It's about being able to be who you are. And, you know, I'm, I'm, so, I've never been as proud as I am today to be an Iranian woman. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I really, and, and I don't know where they get the, you know, this bravery, this, they are truly, truly, truly a remarkable generation because they are fearless and they are fi, you know, they're going into the streets and, and they're chanting tell my mother, she no longer has a daughter because they're, what, what that, and what that's essentially saying is that, you know, I could die, but I'm willing to die for my freedom.
Speaker 1 00:29:34 Yeah. I'm, I'm willing to die to be able to make choices about myself. So it's, it's a remarkable time, time for us as Iranians. And I really, you know, I, I stand in solidarity with my Iranian brothers and sisters. I stand in solidarity with my compatriots, and I just, I really wish a, a better future for Iran, because Iranian women deserve that. And a change in regime in Iran, it's going to mean significant changes geopolitically within the Middle East. So I really, you know, I, I, I, I con, I, I really, I, I stand proud. I, I stand in solidarity and I'm, and I'm behind them, as you know, 100%. And I will continue to amplify their voices and, um, and share their stories, because they, they truly deserve that, that bravery deserves it. They do. They do. And, and we're all here also, um, join you to, and, and support of Iranian men and women, uh, who are asking for, um, as you said, uh, a chance to form their own identities.
Speaker 1 00:30:37 This is a generation that was stripped away from her agency, from its agency, from its, um, uh, freedom from its right to, to form their own identity. Um, and it's all about identity politics. It's not about religion. It's the use of religion to, um, to oppress this generation. And I, I, again, I order there is a river, a revolution, or Yes, it is a woman's movement. Definitely. It's a woman woman's movement that is turning into a human rights movement. It's a human rights movement. Absolutely. So, stop. Um, unlike what we've seen with the Arab Spring, the Arab Revolution, where it turned out as, you know, a collective movement, and then women were stripped out of that, those movements. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. The moment women spoke about their rights, they said, oh, it's not time for you mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but this starts in with rights of the human and wo the woman is at the, at the heart.
Speaker 1 00:31:33 Yes. At the core of that movement. Um, women, no, I said, you women are at the intersection of human rights. Exactly. As we said before, it's, if you don't take women and equality, gender equality into, into consideration, you, you have a very flawed and skewed ideology about what human rights means. True. True. And I love the acts of defiance that came out of this movement. So we know that the haircut mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, uh, uh, the men and women and sporting, especially women from East, and was supporting Iranian women by casting their hair online. But also, I read yesterday that sanitary pads were used to block CCTV cameras in the metro stations and trains in Iran as an also an active defiance against the surveillance of women. So you wanna see us? And that's, that's, uh, that's powerful to say the truth. Um, what can feminists and feminist groups and organizations and Mina do to help, uh, Iranian women at this stage?
Speaker 1 00:32:39 What can we all do to help them? I mean, I think the most important one, and the most obvious one is continue to amplify their voices. Continue to stand in solidarity, because they are dying every single day. And, you know, there is, there's different numbers and, um, and, and a lot of things coming out from the ground. And there's this many people that I, I don't even, I don't, I don't know what the numbers are, but even that one person, of course, is one too many, even that one child is one too many. So, continue to share our stories. Continue to cover, and, you know, I really, I'm, I'm disappointed in mainstream media because they have really failed. I mean, more so now they're starting to pick it up and, and talk about it a little bit, a bit more, but they have really failed in, in, in being able to amplify this.
Speaker 1 00:33:28 And I don't know if it's because they're not able to verify facts. Hmm. Or, you know, I don't know. There's no, I don't believe that is a conspiracy. I just, I, I, I, you know, I'm, I'm open to, I'm open to hearing this from journalists. Like, tell us why aren't you covering our, you know, we are, we are actively reaching out to people and saying, Hey, we're here. Share our stories. Yeah. Um, that's, that's, that's the first thing. Um, supporting organizations like Amnesty International. They have set up a petition, which I think is closed now actually, but they have set up a petition to, um, to hold for the UN to create a me mechanism that will hold the government and Iran accountable for what they're doing. They are acting with impunity. They really are, they are killing people on the streets without, you know, without in, in the name of what.
Speaker 1 00:34:20 And then, and, you know, they have really disgraced religion. They have disgraced Islam, and, you know, it's, it's, it's a how to what extent, so they must be held accountable. So if you come across organizations that are holding people that are, are creating mechanisms to hold the government accountable, please, please support them. Um, and these are the two major things I would say for right now. I mean, it's continuing to develop. We're continuing to, you know, see what, what, what happens on the ground. But I think amplification right now is the most important thing for us. Um, some slogans emerged from this movement. Can you teach us one? Uh, I mean, the one I think everybody has heard is woman life freedom. Yes. Um, which actually, uh, originated from, from the Kurdish woman fighting, um, ish in Syria. Um, that's, that's, that's where it actually originated from Xin Azadi.
Speaker 1 00:35:17 Um, and, you know, and it's, it's such a symbolic Yeah. Uh, symbolic slogan. Um, and there's another one, uh, that, uh, that, that, you know, that, I don't know if you've seen some of the videos, the women are saying, um, Z <unk> mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I'm, I'm the free woman mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and that the men are, are chanting You are the pervert, you're the des <laugh>. Wow. So, I mean, really, as I said, they're fearless. But these are, these are the two that I would, I would probably, I mean, and, and I'll share some videos with you so you can see these Yeah. <laugh>. Okay. Can you repeat them? So, woman Life Freedom, um, and, uh, I, I am a free woman is in Fari.
Speaker 1 00:35:59 Um, so I'm a free woman. You are the pert, you're the <laugh>. Lots of work needs to be done, as you said, contextualized education for men and women. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and really needs to start really early in our lives for men to understand that without women, there is no life. And for women to understand that they need women as their best, uh, alive. Yeah. And I think as you know, as, as feminists are, one thing I would say is our job is to raise our children like that girls and girls and boys. Yeah. Teaching them, you know, strong values about, you know, what the importance of a woman, the importance that what a woman symbolizes in your life. Um, how to treat women, um, how to perceive women. Um, not as as half of an individual, but as a, as an individual equal to you. Um, so I think, yeah, I think that you are raising your children as well as a, as, as, as feminists is, is extremely important. Exactly. So thank you so much. Uh, it's a lovely conversation that we had today and, um, um, painful but real, uh, and hopeful because there are women like you, young women like you doing the work you're doing. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.
Speaker 1 00:37:26 Thank you for listening and watching to stay up to date with Women of the Meese podcast. You can subscribe and don't forget to rate us. If you would like to contact me directly, you can do so on Instagram or Twitter or via email. This is Women of the Middle East podcast.
