Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:03 Hello and welcome to Women of the Middle East Podcast, women of the Middle East. This podcast relates the realities of Arab woman and their rich and diverse experiences. It's aims to present the multiplicity of their voices and wishes to break overdue cultural stereotypes about women of the Middle East. My name is a Maki. I'm a feminist, scholar and educator.
Speaker 2 00:00:28 This is Women of the Middle East podcast.
Speaker 1 00:00:31 This is season four woman voices across genres where I will be speaking to women producing feminist content across different genres and outlets. These courageous voices delve into untapped areas such as women with disability, hybrid identities, intergenerational trauma, feminist narrative in activism, and much, much more. I'm your host, Maki, contributing to creating a new narrative about us by us.
Speaker 2 00:00:56 This is Women of the Middle East WhatsApp.
Speaker 3 00:00:59 Hello and welcome to one of the Middle East podcasts. Today we have a very special episode. We are lucky to have, uh, her highness shek with us in the studio in Doha. Uh, she is a philanthropist and a social entrepreneur. Of course, I select what I want to highlight. Of course, she's a publisher and an author, an advocate of positive thinking and power of drama and creativity. She's a mother of four women and a, and a role model for many men and women. And above all, she is an exceptional, exceptional human being. Welcome. Thank you. So good to be here. Um, what's in the name now? I've
Speaker 1 00:01:42 Done
Speaker 3 00:01:42 My homework and I didn't know that your name carries a story behind it. Okay. So all my siblings, all my, my older siblings started with <unk> and then my brother was named after my uncle who, who died, my, my father's uncle who raised him and died. So that is, and then my younger siblings are also, so it's my brother who's named after someone. And then me and my name came from my late uncle Shek Ed, who was the foreign minister at the time. And they had the Arab League meeting mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And he got out of the plane and they said, your sister had a baby girl. And he called and he said, call her Skk. It's the first time that the Arabs unite, uh, on one decision. And so we named me into, and it's a very unusual name. It's not common.
Speaker 3 00:02:43 And growing up, I, I wanted to become part of the Uhhuh <laugh>. I don't wanna be different. Yeah. So that, and I know now that I'm getting older, I understand the, the impact of my name on me. And I, I, I'm, I'm beginning to understand the impact of names on people, because basically what happens are people call you by your name. Mm-hmm. But in Arabic, a name is also an, um, uh, could be a verb, could be an adjective. So it is, um, something that, you know, words have a, have a big impact on people. And, and we're 70% water. And so words have a big an impact on water. So everyone calls me to solve and sar. So I guess it's made me victorious, but Okay. Regardless of the political connotation of your name. Right. I know. But victory has nothing to do with politics. Exactly. This is what I wanna know. How, how does victory play a role in your life? How can you say I'm victorious in what's context? I'm victorious. I have an amazing family. I'm victorious that I, I think the biggest victory I can, I can claim is I like to be happy. And because I like to be happy, the best or the easiest way to happiness is to be oneself. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so I've always, um,
Speaker 3 00:04:15 Stay true to myself. And sometimes it goes against other people's opinions. It goes against some, uh, societal context is I'm never really that much of a rebel yet. I am,
Speaker 3 00:04:32 I'm not a rebel as much as I really like to stay true to myself mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I think that's my biggest victory. The fact that I can, and being yourself and accepting one's self. Um, I was talking earlier about, um, the importance of the acceptance of one's self. And unfortunately as women, it comes through the lenses of society. So our acceptance is filtered through the society's perception of us as a woman. Has this impacted you at all? And how did you deal with it if it task? Okay. I believe society and, and, and what we think society, uh, impacts us, it's, it's not only on women, it's also on men. If you look at men also, there's a lot of things that men can do. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and the majority follow it. And some just break free and, and live their life. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, and, and the same for women. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> the majority except,
Speaker 3 00:05:29 And the majority except different, uh, scenarios. And they think that this is a scenario that is, is predominant or everyone has to follow. Um, yeah. Someone said to me yesterday, the honorable Patricia Scotland said to me yesterday, I said, you are exemplary. And she said, speak from your heart and always have the courage to speak from your heart. And never be afraid to speak from your heart. I think this is what we all should follow, because when we speak from your heart, people cannot oppose it cuz there is, um, a conviction. Yeah. That ripples. Yeah. No, I agree with you. Now let's talk about feminism and, um, your line of activism. Um, I see that what you do is a unique form of activism, unique in terms of the areas you tackle, but also the way you tackle them. So, for example, we rarely hear about post-traumatic stress disorder.
Speaker 3 00:06:38 Right. Unless in our society's gulf societies, unless it is, uh, about wo men and war. Um, so this reflects the widespread, of course, ignorance about mental health and mental health, uh, importance and our inabilities, uh, as societies to to deal with it. What, why did you choose this area, uh, to focus your, your efforts, your energy, your love? Uh, and I don't think I chose it. I think it was a natural evolution of, of everything I believed in and, and where things are taking me and everything I've worked on. So when I started, uh, I started volunteering with, uh, uh, an organization that supports, uh, children in hospital. So children who hospitalized, they go through a very tough time. And, uh, so what we do is we have a playroom for the children. We also have play leaders. We have, uh, child life specialists, which are, um, certified to be able to work with these young human beings to lessen the stress of hospitalization on them.
Speaker 3 00:07:56 And this was started more than 35 years in Kuwait, and it was pioneering. And I was, uh, I became a volunteer about 30 years ago and I didn't understand then the children, if they are hospitalized, they're traumatized in a way or the other. I thought it was normal, but then I've never had a long-term illness and hospitalization. So once I learned about this, I volunteered and realized these children need very small things that allowed them to tolerate this, this state that they are in hospital. And so I started playing, I love children. So I started playing with them, um, doing different, uh, tactile things. And when they come, when they're, uh, going to have a medical procedure, uh, if they're going to have a, a needle. So we tell them to blow bubbles. And so you, you sort of divert them from the stress of the medical procedures.
Speaker 3 00:08:56 If it's an, uh, m ir mri, then we put them in a little tent with the same sound so they know what's gonna happen. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So that's, I think the beginning of, of lessening people's pain. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> for supporting the lessening of people's pain. Okay. And then in 20 13, 20 12, I, um, decided to use positive psychology and use it. And I've always loved psychology. I love reading about it. I love, um, I used to read self-help books when they were not such so fashionable. Um, and I did a lot of, uh, things that make you feel better from, uh, um, visualization to all of these different mentalities. I just wanted always to feel better and I would make an effort. Some people like to feel better. They read books and they don't implement anything. No, I would sit, I would journal, I would do all of these things that make me feel better.
Speaker 3 00:10:00 So in 2012, I realized that positive psychology would be really good for Kuwait. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> 2013, we started in where, and then it became, we, we branched out also with Betty, which uses positive psychology in schools. And I saw, and I was, I thought they were lying to me say the truth. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the girls were changing cuz I used to visit girls schools. We implemented in both, um, girls and boys schools. And the girls suddenly they're flourishing. And I thought, eh, you know, the, the, I dunno, I'm very skeptical. No, they're, they're, you know, they're, they're not saying the truth. No. They're just pretending in front of me. But all the schools were the same. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, uh, you know, the director of the program would say they're changing. And I would look at, I said, no one changes that fast. And so that, you know, one thing needs to, but they were changing.
Speaker 3 00:11:00 People need very small things to realize that they can feel better. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, so that went on for a few years. And then, uh, in 2017 there, you know, there was a round table and I realized that women, Arab women affected by war were not offered any mental health. None. And, um, as a victim of war, I am a victim of war. I was a refugee. I know how I changed from being a peaceful person to a scared, um, um, violent, angry, um, not so happy person. And that was during the, uh, occupation on point. Yeah. Iraq, occupation, ofWe. Yeah. And I know what I went through and, but I also know that after that, that's why I said I did a lot of self-help. I realized that I just was feeling terrible. And I didn't know at the time that it was the, the trauma of work or the trauma, it's a trauma.
Speaker 3 00:12:12 It's everything was trauma. Seeing dead Iraqis on the road and feeling happy. This is not me. I, I'm scared of, of hurting anything or that's it. I don't like hurting anything. And so the, the, the whole thing turned me. Yeah. And, uh, so when I realized that women were not supported to let go of the pain and the violence inside of them, I decided to do something and say the truth. People made fun of me. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> people made fun of me in the beginning. They always do because they don't understand. Uh, I was talking to someone today and she said, the world needs the crazy ones because we see what they don't see. And once we accomplish it, they think, oh yes. But in the beginning it's called crazy. So when I did, I decide to do something about it. Uh, some people were not my face cause I don't listen to people.
Speaker 3 00:13:09 But some people like, eh, what are you going to do? What you going to do? And then started looking at what kind of mental health, mental health, uh, tools can we give? And so we, we looked at many and then we decided to do more of a, um, a group mental health support as societal mental health support, not individual. And so we, we chose the arts and of the arts. We chose drama therapy. It's very impactful. It's very transformative. You can't call it playing. And that's what our women say to their families. So they can come, we're going to go play Uhhuh. So the families allow them to, because you know, of the taboo and uh, and all the other issues that family won't allow them usually to go to a therapist. And they come and through.
Speaker 3 00:14:02 We have everything from breathing to visualization and drama therapy. Let me explain. Drama therapy. Not everyone knows it. I didn't know it until a few years ago. So it's, um, a mix between psychology. So therapy and theater techniques and theater techniques. For anyone who knows theater techniques, it's the embodiment of the emotion. It's a feeling of everything in your body. And also feeling of people. Because in the theater you have to be aware of your audience, but you also have to be aware of your feelings. And women, anyone who's traumatized is detached and they feel alone. And so when you're doing theater, they have to embody their emotions, but they also have to work within a team. And then they, they have to develop listening skills as well as speaking skills. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so, uh, drama therapy raises the women's, uh, visibility. Cause with war and violence, you tend to want to be invisible cause it's dangerous being visible.
Speaker 3 00:15:08 So it increases their visibility and increases their voice. Because most women don't have voices. Also subdue your voice and also creates a bond between other women. And she creates a support group. So what we do, we stay with the same community mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And we are staying, we haven't finished the 12%, we are staying with the same community until we get the 12th to 14%, which is a tipping point. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then we expect that after you get the tipping point, these women will be able to help the other women. Okay. Okay. And that's what we see when we get the women together in the beginning. Um, and it's really interesting cuz that's what I'm going to be speaking about tomorrow. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, traumatized people
Speaker 3 00:15:56 Don't like interacting with other people. They're, they're secular. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. So being in a group, it opens them up to communicating, but also to empathizing, but also to throwing down their guards and creating a community. So we have women who are neighbors for the past five, six years who don't talk to each other and they're just gossiping about each other, which is what trauma does. Okay. It creates in, um, it, it separates people. Yeah. Because it's a survival mode. Yeah. And when they do drama therapy, they start letting go of all of these issues and pain, and then they start seeing the humanity in others. And then they, they let their guard down and they're able to bond with other women. And then they create this support group that continues even after we finish working with them. That's amazing. So that's why I call it, it's a societal therapy.
Speaker 3 00:17:03 It's not individual or group therapy. With group therapy have people and then they leave. Yeah. This, we stay within the same society until they become a big, bigger, more homogenous group. And they, they can create the glue that keeps their families together, that reduces the violence, that reduces uh, the trauma within them and also within the, their families. Amazing. So what's and the ripple effect is basically, um, oh many, right? Do you know what they do? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Oh my god. See this makes me happy. <laugh>. So I'll tell you what we've seen, we've seen the reduction and this is huge of women allowing gender-based violence, allowing, accessing asylum. Allowing Oh allow. Because they don't know. And and I'll tell you what the women said to me. We didn't know that we can stop it. Yeah. We didn't know that we are worthy to stop it. But when they grow their self-worth, they realize their potential, they realize how powerful they are.
Speaker 3 00:18:06 So they stop, the violence is being inflicted on them and they stop inflicting violence on their children. So they stop beating their children, they stop shouting at their children. They stop hurting their children cuz they're not as hurt. Um, this is one of unfortunately my favorite quote, but it's also, it's a good ending. She said, when my daughter used to ask me for a glass of water, I would slap her. Now I realize that she is thirsty. Wow. Wow. Yes. When you are stressed, if your child says something, the natural thing when you're stressed is to push them away. Cause you are stressed. You're in your mind, you're in your head. You're too traumatized. You're in so much pain. You don't want, everything the children do is a pain. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So she's realized her daughter just wants a glass of water. And I've heard this over and over again with different scenarios.
Speaker 3 00:19:06 So violence is reduced on her. And from her they stop child marriages. So she no longer is afraid that her daughter needs, um, protection. Mm-hmm. So she stops her daughter being married so young. Mm-hmm. She stops the daughter being taken outta school. Um, many have started their own new jobs. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, many have so much self-confidence, uh, it, they start treating their daughters different. Cuz now the daughter's no longer a liability cuz she thought she's a liability. And when she realizes her potential and her worth, she realizes that her daughter is an asset, not a liability. So see, these are the success stories I love. And these are all things that happened without intention from our side. It's when you grow the inner confidence to worth of that person, you grow the whole society. Exactly. Exactly. It's amazing. And this, those stories are gathered and recorded.
Speaker 3 00:20:16 Yes. Because those are what's skeptics around us. Oh. We do research. So from day one, we had a researcher in place. Uh, I always knew that to create a change, you have to have evidence. Yeah. So everything we do is evidence based. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So we've had researchers in place from day one speaking to the women, taking surveys before, during, and after. And also we, uh, we've, uh, published reports, we've, uh, published two huge researchers. And we're only third, wait, we started in 2018. If you count Covid, we've had four years. Okay. If you don't count Covid, we've had two years. Yeah. Yeah. And so we've had huge, many, many reports actually. And, and lots of changes in the women psychologically as well as physically. So their pain is diminished or less, they're, they're more able, you know, I, I like saying they're no longer surviving.
Speaker 3 00:21:18 They are now able to thrive. Oh, nice. Yes. Yes. That's amazing. So we have, we have, we do impact reports. We do measure the changes in the women. We have research coming up very soon. This is very interesting. So we'll be doing, um, all kinds of, of, of tests on women, on the psychology, on the physical, but also on the brain to see how does drama therapy affect the brain function. So using MRIs, using um, um, I forgot the word. It'll come to me. But using different, uh, measurements Okay. To determine what happens in the brain and the body and the epigenetics of these women when we, uh, implement a drama therapy, uh, program on them. That's amazing. You told me once that happiness and pain cannot go against. No, you can't. No <laugh>. No you can't. Yeah. Really. Yeah. Now you deal with victims of war.
Speaker 3 00:22:23 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you see the change in their lives. Definitely. I mean, as you said, this change can be measured, but this doesn't take away the pain. Does it momentarily? It does. Can, okay. I'll give you, I'll give you an example. You have a headache mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. And something nice happens around you. You still have the headache. You just don't feel it. Yeah. That's it. It they can't coexist in the same moment. Okay. You can't be looking at something really beautiful like Wow. And feeling a headache. Never. Okay. That's why. And then you stop like, oh, with the headaches back. Okay. That's what I mean. Okay. Makes sense. So, because you can't be happy forever or, or for, you know, and we can't be in pain forever. Who says you can't be happier forever? And who says you have to be in pain for forever? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's a choice.
Speaker 3 00:23:18 How do I disconnect my empathy from feeling pain? Um, your pain or people's pain? So there are lots of people like me and I know you're in path to Right. I'm not an empath. You're not an empath. Good for you. Because, because for me, empathy is selfishness. Really? Yeah. I can never feel other people's pain. I can think I know what they're going through. Mm mm Okay. But it's, it's my thinking. It's not theirs. It's my brain making me think that I can, uh, I I I feel them. Exactly. At a certain level. Exactly. So when I think I know what people are going through, yeah. I am, I'm I'll say it another way. I am compassionate. Okay. Okay. I don't simp, I not, I don't sympathize. I'm compassionate with people, but I don't pretend to know what they're going through. Mm-hmm. I can pre pretend, I can try to understand, but I don't know.
Speaker 3 00:24:12 So talking to people mm-hmm. You can support them in discovering how to get out of where they are. But empathy in a way sometimes is feeling sorry for people. And when you feel sorry for people, it stops you from helping them too. And it's unfair on them because they don't get to tell their own story. Exactly. True. So that's why I don't consider myself an empath because if, if I'm an empath means I don't feel myself, I'm putting myself in their shoes. I can never put me in there, shoes ever. No one can be in my shoes. But I can understand and I always do as much as I can to support them. But I never live their life because if I'm living their life, who's living mine. Very interesting. Yeah. And how would be able to help if you're too connected and too, this is what stops me sometimes from helping.
Speaker 3 00:25:08 And I like what you said because I need to really, um, listen to this again and, and internalize it. Uh, sometimes, um, I find myself unable to help some people or some woman because, because of the fact that I'm an empath and the moment they're around me, I feel the pain that they feel. Of course it's, I, my brain makes me feel that I feel their pain. Um, it's really rubs on me very quickly. Okay. Let me tell you the way I see, I see my life for, for the longest time. Dunno if it's a female trait or it's, it, it is. This was me. I felt this, the world was unfair. Why do I get so much? And other people get much less. And so there was, I thought there was an injustice and all I wanted to do was help everyone until I realized if I didn't have so much, I wouldn't have the energy, the time, the the resources to do what I'm doing.
Speaker 3 00:26:10 So this is part of my happiness too. I don't live people's life because if I did, I wouldn't be able to do what I'm doing. And I'm not detached. I never feel sorry for women. I actually, I'm in awe because I don't think I could have lived their life. To see these women that we meet and to see all the hardship they're going through and to realize I would've been broken a long time ago. Yet she's here, she's making an effort and she wants to change her life. Mm-hmm. I'm an norm. And when I'm an empath, I don't see that. True. True. You just focus on her being a victim rather than a survivor. She is a thriver. Yeah. The fact that she's there, there doing the program mm-hmm. Whatever the program is, she's a thriver. You're aquity princess. Hmm. One of the new emerging narratives, uh, that I believe is contributing to undermining us as women, uh, on two, uh, levels.
Speaker 3 00:27:13 Um, international level. When they focus on the fact that you're a creative princess and Oh, I love it. I love it. I use it the whole time. It's never, it's never a liability. Always turn everything into a good thing. Exactly. How do you do that? How do you take this privilege? Uh, claim it. You have to claim it. It's a fact. Okay. But show them how, what do you do? Because this is taken against us even in the regional. Um, uh, I don't tell people. See, the way I see life is no one's against me. I don't, I don't battle through life. Okay. <laugh>. I don't battle through life. I'm privileged. The day I realized, well, it took me many, many, many, many weeks and once and years to realize the privilege is <unk>.
Speaker 3 00:28:03 Yeah. Okay. It's a blessing. It's a blessing. And if I don't appreciate the blessing, I'm saying, God, you don't know what you're doing. Yeah. And so I realize why am I not loving it? Yeah. The only reason I'm love loving it is because I don't feel worthy. Yeah. And I think it should stop. I feel, um, guilty of enjoying it. And so when I came to this place where I'm enjoying who I am and cause I'm enjoying who I am, I can do so much. Mm. Exactly. I can do so much. Not for other women. I can do all other people. I can do so much for me. I can enjoy life, I can flourish. I become a role model for my daughters, for my family, for people. And I can only be a role model when I'm embracing the p when I'm enjoying the privileges that I have.
Speaker 3 00:29:07 And only when you truly enjoy mm-hmm. <affirmative> and are appreciative of the privilege, can you do something more for others? Because if you are not full mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you cannot support others. I totally agree. I love the way you put it. I love the way it took me a long time to get here and I'm loving it. Yeah. And I'm Arab. Oh my God. I love being Arab. I love that. We're not always as sensible as they think we should be. We're not always as, uh, whatever others think I am. Me. I love it. Well, you're breaking stereotypes on daily basis. Maria Maria Williamson. Yeah. Okay. Maria Williamson had this, it's my, one of my favorite quotes ever. I will not quote it cause it's very long. But basically it starts with our biggest fear is not our darkness. Our biggest fear is our how is our light and how great we are.
Speaker 3 00:30:06 And only when you can shine your light as bright as you can, can you support others around you to shine bright. Someone said to me, only when your candle is lit can you support the other candles being lit. Um, you help women. Um, I support women. I don't help them. You support women. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, please support women. Uh, right, left and center. Um, I hear about, uh, those wonderful stories about you. Um, but what is your hope for a woman? I just wanna be happy. Women can be whoever they want. Listen to still think that women need to fight. We're over the fight for faith. Women are taking over <unk> They have to fight now. <laugh>, like seriously I look at men <unk> the next 20 years you are, you are going to be asking for the 50 50 and the next 2050 years. 20 years. Looking at all high school grad, uh, university graduates looking at all, uh, uh, leadership.
Speaker 3 00:31:14 All it's women looking. Women are willing to take on responsibility. Yes. More than men if they are given the chance because the mo you know who's destroyed men? They're mothers. <laugh>. I always say to mothers, do not destroy. I don't have boys. So I'm lucky. I never destroyed my son, the son. I never had women destroy their sons by doing everything for them. You know, someone said something to me today, men can't do anything with the, without a woman's support. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, why are we letting them leave the world without us being there? She has a support. Exactly. She has a exactly mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But the the stuff that you do to support women as actually enabling them to first of all believe in themselves. Exactly. Only need to do is we need Exactly. And when you believe you don't need to fight, you don't need to. It it, there's enough for men and women.
Speaker 3 00:32:08 Definitely. Of course. It's, yeah. It's a shared responsibility. This life is a shared responsibility they've seen in yang. Yeah. I believe in that's true. It it's not one. No. It's women rule the world. World. It's still wouldn't be a good world. It's such an honor to have you and such a lovely <laugh> atmosphere you created here. We do laughing yoga. Definitely. I'm gonna look for a laughing yoga. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Thank you for being in my life. Thank you for being who you are and um, um, we're very, very, um, lucky to have you <unk> I am honored, privileged. And this has been such a nice and beautiful day. Thank you so much. Thanks for watching. Bye-Bye.
Speaker 1 00:32:59 Thank you for listening and watching to stay up to date with Women of the Middle East podcast. You can subscribe and don't forget to rate us. If you would like to contact me directly, you can do so on Instagram or Twitter or via email. This is Women of the Middle East podcast.
